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King Matador
10-21-2010, 05:37 PM
change of thread topic. just talk about battles you would like to see. post classic battles (in your opinion) from both url and GT. just basically lets have a great battle discussion. so, everything on the bottom isn't irrelevant it just adds to the great battling discussion.


I was thinking about this last night. this would be a good debate. which one is better? who has the better battlers? I guess it's way of preference; what one likes to hear in a battle. whether it be gun, hood talk and/or not talking about guns. me personally, I love all around and could only tolerate gun talk when that battler is creative while talking about it. also, if their delivery makes that person sound believable, even though it's apparent they're not.

creative meaning "what's a 50 cal to a sling shot? my whole team ***. you're fly as a bird, until we shoot you down like the resturant. aint no telling where his wing stop." or "talk about your extended tolies. that aint gonna do ish, but get your kids bopped, ribs shot, and get put in a clear box and returned like a rented movie." also, that arm line by heartless when he versused calicoe.

anyways, I wanted to know which battling circuit y'all would choose between the 2? and who would be your top 5 that you feel is pretty much untouchable in battling. also note, hollow is a grind time battler, even though he battled on url once. he'll even tell you that. the only battlers that made that jump fully is DNA and cortez.


GRIND TIME TOP 5
The Saurus
Soul Khan
Dirtbag Dan
Hollow Da Don
Dizaster

all around.. creative, lyrical, delivery, rebuttals, personals, those 5 got it all and will eat anybody from any battling circuit up IMO I was gonna add real deal, nocan and/or okwerdz. but real deal and okwerdz can't hold a match to these 5 and nocan, well, I don't know lol I wanted to add him but couldn't choose who to take off. he'll be like a 6th man..

anyways, what URL top 5 is seeing my grind time top 5? or if you see a top grind time 5 being better than my 5, what is it?

E RaSTaH
10-21-2010, 06:58 PM
LOL AT U PUTTIN DIRTBAG DAN IN THE TOP FIVE...LIKE U SAID I DONT MIND THE GUN TALK AS LONG AS U CREATIVE AND SAY SUM SHIT I NEVER HURD BEFORE...I HONESTLY LIKE THEM BOTH..BUT IMA SAY URL HAS THE BETTER BATTLERS RITE NOW

HOLLOW DA DON
MATH
AYE VERB
CORTEZ
GOODZ

King Matador
10-21-2010, 07:46 PM
but you said hollow? when hollow's a grind time rapper. what makes him a url battle rapper, when he only battled once on url and says he's a grind time rapper?

also, why not dirtbag? he has charisma, great presence, creativity, delivery, he's lyrical. he also holds humor. in all honesty, if a battler has all those qualities, that's great. what put's battlers over other battlers is how well they could freestyle and their rebuttals. it's hard to beat a battler that holds all those qualities, as well as those last 2 I named.

all the people you named, besides hollow has set rounds. they only rap those bars they made up at home. yea, their tight but what happens when a dirtbag dan rebuttals everything the line that had the most impact and flips it? and/or just picks out random things they are wearing or how they talk to talk about? that's the reason why (say a) hollow is so good. it's hard to beat a writer and a good freestyler.

PS hollow is still a grind time rapper and my 5 will smash yours lol

King Matador
10-21-2010, 07:49 PM
hell, I could even give you hollow and take nocan in replacement.

E RaSTaH
10-21-2010, 07:54 PM
IF DIRTBAG WAS AS GR8 AS U SAY HE IS..Y WOULD THEY MAKE HIM BATTLE THAT WACK ASS DUDE IN KODT...NAME A CLASSIC DIRTBAG BATTLE CUZ I CANT SAY I SEEN ALL HIS SHIT CUZ I HAVENT BUT FROM WHAT I SEEN THERES NO WAY HE BELONG IN THE DISCUSSION AS "THE BEST" AND I NEVER SEEN HOLLOW SAY NOTHIN BOUT BEIN A GT RAPPER...HE WILL CONTINUE DOIN URL BATTLES..LOOKS LIKE HE WILL ATLEAST

King Matador
10-21-2010, 08:18 PM
they didn't make dirtbag dan battle him, they asked him, he said yes. he even battled tiger ty. you forget grind time top tier battlers love the sport of it.. where url, well, are divas. anyways, I guess you haven't been keeping up on dirt but here you go ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KioT-_Asvw&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65gJB2bvHMk&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h9bUxKbPEo&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwbGe2di0QQ&feature=player_embedded

and I know hollow personally, but here's a video where they tried talking about grind time and he says "shoutout grind time, I mess with grind time, what?" ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr6DRx3NvIk&feature=player_embedded

you could also ask him on twitter, if he responds.

Wizz
10-21-2010, 08:42 PM
i dont like DBD but i do rate him as a battler. he is funny, he has rhythm, flow diversity, charisma, frees, just about everything. he doesnt really have any weaknesses.



as for a URL five to match yours Mat, i really cant come up with one. i mean i could just throw a bunch of 'big' names together but most of the ones considered URL battlers i find are grossly overrated. i'd probably be able to pick another GT 5 to match you

King Matador
10-21-2010, 09:24 PM
i dont like DBD but i do rate him as a battler. he is funny, he has rhythm, flow diversity, charisma, frees, just about everything. he doesnt really have any weaknesses.



as for a URL five to match yours Mat, i really cant come up with one. i mean i could just throw a bunch of 'big' names together but most of the ones considered URL battlers i find are grossly overrated. i'd probably be able to pick another GT 5 to match you

a lot of URL battlers are overrated and divas. a lot of them haven't even had that many battles to earn us calling them top tier, but aww well. people think differently then me.

when it comes to comparing a top URL battler to a top GT battler, IMO it's possible but pretty impossible. possible to the point that you can, but impossible to the point of them actually coming out on top. unless that top GT battler chokes or the viewer is bias. they're too versatile, too many rebuttals, and too creative.

that's like crossing someone over with the best crossover but that person you crossed hit you for 40. yea, you crossed them but i'm worried about the overall performance.

Wizz
10-21-2010, 09:56 PM
yeah its so much easier to rate GT battlers too because they tend to battle more than URL guys.


heres my GT 5 to match yours btw:


Dumb or Locksmith
Illmac
Ness Lee
Real Deal
Jonny Storm (slept on, but always wins his 'big' battles)

E RaSTaH
10-21-2010, 10:10 PM
lol at johnny storm...i like him but hes on the middle weight level to b honest........but btw nocando is nasty ill say he belong in the top 5 ..dirtbag pretty good but wouldnt put him in the top 5..nocan def took it in 3..that didnt deserve to go ot

King Matador
10-21-2010, 10:14 PM
yeah its so much easier to rate GT battlers too because they tend to battle more than URL guys.


heres my GT 5 to match yours btw:


Dumb or Locksmith
Illmac
Ness Lee
Real Deal
Jonny Storm (slept on, but always wins his 'big' battles)

you're right about GT. GT also go around the world and battle other circuits. that's why I love GT more cuss they battle just for the love of the sport, not the love of money. they earn they're stature but anyways, you're 6 is really good..

I was gonna name real deal and lock too but then just kept my 5. even though diz choked and lock killed him. diz gotten way better siince then. and johnny storm lost against lock imo but I guess them being on the same team, doesn't matter lol what would be the match up against my 5? real deal already faced against the saurus in the past, got beat, and recently at GM2. have to see how that goes. ill mac beat the saurus but it was one hella close battle. who would ness lee matchup with? that's the only person out of your line up I can't figure out who he can match up with.

King Matador
10-21-2010, 10:17 PM
lol at johnny storm...i like him but hes on the middle weight level to b honest........but btw nocando is nasty ill say he belong in the top 5 ..dirtbag pretty good but wouldnt put him in the top 5..nocan def took it in 3..that didnt deserve to go ot

yea, I feel nocan beat him too. dirtbag is always robbing niggas, dang mexican lol johnny, he's coo imo. he's slept on but I can't see him matching up with anybody who I named right now. he had a hard time beating syahboy. same goes with ness lee..

Wizz
10-21-2010, 10:21 PM
lol at johnny storm...i like him but hes on the middle weight level to b honest........but btw nocando is nasty ill say he belong in the top 5 ..dirtbag pretty good but wouldnt put him in the top 5..nocan def took it in 3..that didnt deserve to go ot



you can put nocan up there too. but his pen game isnt that great but he is great battler.



i know jonny doesnt ring bells as top tier but in the context of GT he gets the damn job done. you aren't gonna be average and have wins over Thesaurus and Real Deal a close one (arguable win) with Locksmith (promo)

E RaSTaH
10-21-2010, 10:30 PM
you can put nocan up there too. but his pen game isnt that great but he is great battler.



i know jonny doesnt ring bells as top tier but in the context of GT he gets the damn job done. you aren't gonna be average and have wins over Thesaurus and Real Deal a close one (arguable win) with Locksmith (promo)

i like the dude i think he has alotta potential..but i wouldnt put him in that catergory just yet..dont see the two battles u jus mentioned..maybe thatll convince me

my top will be

dizaster, real deal, conceited, saurus nocan

E RaSTaH
10-22-2010, 01:11 AM
i wanna say illmac but seems like he battles once a year..i was chillin wit his boy 9dm all day wen we had went to the event where ky and 9 tag teamed and 9 beat lotta zay.dude is actually close friends wit illmac ..dudes a beast..i got in a chypher wit them on the car ride..hes a problem..i kno he was throwin in sum writtens but he was goin off the top also

Wizz
10-22-2010, 08:10 AM
i wanna say illmac but seems like he battles once a year..i was chillin wit his boy 9dm all day wen we had went to the event where ky and 9 tag teamed and 9 beat lotta zay.dude is actually close friends wit illmac ..dudes a beast..i got in a chypher wit them on the car ride..hes a problem..i kno he was throwin in sum writtens but he was goin off the top also




if you rate thesaurus you pretty much have to rate illmac. he did fall off slightly but when he's motivated he will BODY anyone(see thesaurus, eurgh, ness lee battles all are at least borderline classics). his resume is unquestionable 2 time WRC winner, won scribble jam, won spin the mic in 06.



and he makes good music

King Matador
10-22-2010, 09:04 AM
i like the dude i think he has alotta potential..but i wouldnt put him in that catergory just yet..dont see the two battles u jus mentioned..maybe thatll convince me

my top will be

dizaster, real deal, conceited, saurus nocan

let me ask you something. conceited is my nigga and the debate comes up a lot. yea conceited gets views but out of all the GT, hell even the url "top tiers," who has conceited actually battled and beat (besides illmac) for us to consider him top tier? or even amongst the people you've named?

E RaSTaH
10-22-2010, 11:09 AM
let me ask you something. conceited is my nigga and the debate comes up a lot. yea conceited gets views but out of all the GT, hell even the url "top tiers," who has conceited actually battled and beat (besides illmac) for us to consider him top tier? or even amongst the people you've named?

i just really like his style...ive always been a punchline dude and con b goin hard..and i do think he beat goodz

Grizzly Adams
10-22-2010, 11:16 AM
GT >>> URL....

but sometimes i prefer URL over GT...depends on how im feeling...

Wizz
10-22-2010, 01:09 PM
GT >>> URL....

but sometimes i prefer URL over GT...depends on how im feeling...



not exactly what the discussion is, but i agree.

Grizzly Adams
10-22-2010, 04:20 PM
not exactly what the discussion is, but i agree.

i know...i didn't have a top 5 to go against mats...so i just went with the thread title...

plus yall already picked all the others for a top 5, didn't wanna have the same list....

E RaSTaH
10-22-2010, 07:04 PM
I WAS JUS WATCHIN SUM VERB BATTLES AND IMA HAVE TO SAY I HONESTLY THINK HE WOULD RIP ANY GT NIGGA RITE NOW

King Matador
10-22-2010, 08:08 PM
yea, right. tell verb just stick to url. go watch how hard of time he had against hollow and marvwon. those are the battles that people see as going either way. now imagine what the top tiers such as a the saurus, nocan, soul khan will do to him.

E RaSTaH
10-22-2010, 08:32 PM
good to see but i think verb would take it even vs dizaster..and soul khan is jus a comedy rapper

Grizzly Adams
10-22-2010, 10:17 PM
verb is dat dude tho....he got the url shook

Wizz
10-22-2010, 10:18 PM
I WAS JUS WATCHIN SUM VERB BATTLES AND IMA HAVE TO SAY I HONESTLY THINK HE WOULD RIP ANY GT NIGGA RITE NOW



im not sure about that, but he certainly is my fav in the whole scen right now

King Matador
10-23-2010, 05:11 AM
good to see but i think verb would take it even vs dizaster..and soul khan is jus a comedy rapper

soul khan has great presence, a great showman, as well as being funny and witty. aye verb will have a hell of a hard time with him. infact, I believe aye verb is shook of soul khan. I remember aye verb on gunline radio (i'll find the link), he was talking about noone could beat him, he'll beat everyone, clowning on okwerdz.

they asked him about soul khan, his whole voice dropped and said, I like soul khan. they asked "do you think you're win?" his response was I like soul khan, while studdarding. he don't want that and he knows it. he better stick to these street niggas, that's not versatile, and all they do is talk about street stuff.

E RaSTaH
10-23-2010, 11:03 AM
THIS ARGUEMENT IS POINTLESS..THE WHOLE THREAD AT THAT..U CANT SAY WHO WILL WIN..BECUZ THA BATTLE AINT HAPPEN!!

King Matador
10-23-2010, 01:36 PM
stop coppin out..

PS I never seen this battle, until now..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39ITS1YDpoE

crazy battle.

King Matador
10-23-2010, 02:07 PM
change the thread topic. just talk about battles you would like to see. post classic battles (in your opinion) from both url and GT. just have a great battle discussion..

Wizz
10-23-2010, 02:49 PM
more 2 on 2's. the GT 2on2 tourney has to happen

King Matador
10-23-2010, 02:56 PM
yea, I hope they get that jumping cuss the 2on2's are tight. I hope they get top tier 2on2's. let me think of some real quick.. I know 2 of them will be the suaras and ill mac / dirtbag dan and soul khan.. I wanna see how okwerdz and diz would favor. I want nocan to battle with someone, just don't know with who yet. how about we get dna and cortez vs marvwon and quest. I know that won't happen though, being they all battled 1on1. it be dope with them in the tourney though. but yea, a tourney would be tight. I just don't want the top tier battling so early lol

King Matador
10-23-2010, 04:10 PM
yo we talk about marv and math's 3rd but soul khan's 3rd vs QP is pretty dang! brutal and should be added with their 3rd as well. atleast in my opinion cuss after that, there was nothing QP could say for him to possibly win, at all. the crowd shut down after that. qp had to be more than incredible.. fwd to 12:58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O54dRgTqv04&feature=player_embedded

Wizz
10-23-2010, 05:12 PM
yea, I hope they get that jumping cuss the 2on2's are tight. I hope they get top tier 2on2's. let me think of some real quick.. I know 2 of them will be the suaras and ill mac / dirtbag dan and soul khan.. I wanna see how okwerdz and diz would favor. I want nocan to battle with someone, just don't know with who yet. how about we get dna and cortez vs marvwon and quest. I know that won't happen though, being they all battled 1on1. it be dope with them in the tourney though. but yea, a tourney would be tight. I just don't want the top tier battling so early lol



i dont think saurus and mac are going to team up for the 2 on 2 tourny. they asked saurus about it and he was real iffy about it and was really open to teaming up with someone else.



that troy brown & roosevelt pair is a force though

King Matador
10-23-2010, 05:24 PM
i dont think saurus and mac are going to team up for the 2 on 2 tourny. they asked saurus about it and he was real iffy about it and was really open to teaming up with someone else.



that troy brown & roosevelt pair is a force though

that was really wishful thinking on my part lol I wanna see all the classic 2on2 pair team back up. but yea that troy brown and roosevelt could do some damage.

King Matador
10-28-2010, 07:35 AM
here's url vs gt via twitter..


SMACKWHITE: I think I'm going 2 drop @therealtech9 vs @x_factor01 battle today!!! The battle game been quiet since the @CORTEZ_HSP @Marvwon Classic!!

http://twitter.com/SMACKWHITE/status/28911688344


DirtbagDan408: @SMACKWHITE are you serious? 2 of the best battles EVER dropped in the last two weeks... #COMEON

http://twitter.com/DirtbagDan408/status/28912047427


SMACKWHITE: ?????RT @DirtbagDan408: @SMACKWHITE are you serious? 2 of the best battles EVER dropped in the last two weeks... #COMEON

http://twitter.com/SMACKWHITE/status/28912706561


DirtbagDan408: @SMACKWHITE Diz vs Nocan, Me vs Mac Lethal. Don't seem quiet & when 1 of yours get the nuts 2 go with me, I'll make things REAL LOUD #MYWORD

http://twitter.com/DirtbagDan408/status/28913239000


SMACKWHITE: @DirtbagDan408 all respect due with the release of your battle, 60+ view in 3days impressive!! Good Shit. But it's diff game on side!!!!

http://twitter.com/SMACKWHITE/status/28917106796


DirtbagDan408: @SMACKWHITE I've played about every game the WORLD's got going, GT,KOTD(CAN),DF(UK),GB(AUS), now FT(PI) yawl about what's left #LETSGETIT

http://twitter.com/DirtbagDan408/status/28918352046

it's funny how dirtbag shut smack up and smack's response was, "it's a different game on their side." I thought he said the battle world was real quiet though? I guess he was referring to urltv being "real quiet" ..

King Matador
10-28-2010, 07:46 AM
infact, the only time I heard the battle world getting quiet is when iron solomon vs e. ness dropped on GT. fact, urltv was scheduled to drop the big kannon vs moe dirdee that same day. it dropped a like a month later in fear of losing numbers. while that diz vs nocan dropped the next day to cortez vs marvwon releasing. url makes it a competition but GT keeps it moving cuss they've already won and on top. url needs that mentality, rather then always trying to compete with GT.

Wizz
10-28-2010, 09:35 AM
word is swave won against cortez last night. it was a one round battle. they say they both held it down though.




i wouldnt expect it to surface on video so thats why im telling

E RaSTaH
10-28-2010, 09:55 AM
its not gon b put on youtube?

King Matador
10-28-2010, 10:59 AM
word is swave won against cortez last night. it was a one round battle. they say they both held it down though.




i wouldnt expect it to surface on video so thats why im telling

I heard the other way around? but you know how people be bias. I hope it does surface.

anyways, in other battling news. charlie clips has called out iron solomon and goodz called out hollow da don. I don't know if any of that gonna happen cuss hollow and iron both want other battlers. goodz is also supposed to battle math in 2 days. 1 round unlimited..


its not gon b put on youtube?

it should.

Wizz
10-29-2010, 05:37 PM
its not gon b put on youtube?



probably not, unless there's some fan video of it

King Matador
10-30-2010, 06:18 PM
yo E, here's when they mention soul khan to aye verb and he seems a little shook that I was talking about. he also talks about okwerdz, charlie clips, and more..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfAKjRq_LQ8&feature=player_embedded

Wizz
10-30-2010, 09:14 PM
yeah i heard that interview the other day shit was hilarious. verb did seem a lil shook at the mention of soul khan tho. but he could take him

King Matador
10-30-2010, 09:41 PM
that interview was awhile back, i'm surprise they're just now releasing it. when I initially told E I couldn't find the interview anywhere but aye verb won't have a approach against soul khan. whatever verb does, soul khan will take the crowd from him.

E RaSTaH
10-31-2010, 02:47 AM
why do u even bring crowds up...crowd reactions has nothin to do wit winning battles...nd he aint sound shook? maybe im missin sumtin but he said he wouldnt mind battlin him..so dont kno wat u talkin bout..

King Matador
10-31-2010, 07:43 AM
the crowd meaning them and us. and after saying he'll kill everybody, they have to be known to battle him, they have to have views. they brought up soul khan, he obviously beated around the question. dude 1st big'd him up and tried to put him on okwerdz. that's obviously not the question. then he got completely quiet, and said ummm.. no, maybe. now aye verb is indecisive? then he refrained from saying he'll kill soul khan. he doesn't want it with soul khan. this is coming from a arrogant battler that went as far as to say he'll kill hitman holla and wants to rematch hollow da don to kill him too. a deaf person could hear he was shook of soul khan 1on1. well, I guess not to someone that don't want to hear it cuss aye verb is one of their favorites.

King Matador
10-31-2010, 08:30 AM
me personally would like to see a person aye verb can't really figure out like a soul khan. then he has to do more then just be lyrical. overall though, if I had to match ayeverb up with anybody, it'll be with charlie clips. I need to see that and that would be the most views in url history, if both putting on their best performance.

E RaSTaH
10-31-2010, 10:50 AM
i think a hollow rematch would get more views but that charlie clips would b ill

King Matador
10-31-2010, 02:08 PM
people would love to see hollow but it's already happened. charlie clips had 1 battle and killed dude. aye verb and charlie clips have been going back and fourth for hella long. whenever verb ask who should he battle, they always say, say others but mostly charlie clips. people are waiting for clips to get back in the ring. charlie clips wants iron now though but I even think aye verb vs charlie would be bigger than that. who knows though..

E RaSTaH
10-31-2010, 11:43 PM
i jus got the word from ky that he won at kotd vs aftershock

King Matador
11-01-2010, 10:01 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pwX4y9OpHY&feature=player_embedded

King Matador
11-01-2010, 10:08 PM
charlie getting at an audience member at cortez release party.. this is like 5 months old though..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE8V5rz_Yzo&feature=player_embedded

E RaSTaH
11-01-2010, 11:42 PM
YO KING DO YOU KNOW WHERE I COULD FIND A LINK TO HOLLOW'S ALBUM.LOYALTY SUMTIN

King Matador
11-02-2010, 01:14 AM
"money change, loyality don't," naw, I tried looking for it but I couldn't find it at all except for on itunes.

E RaSTaH
11-02-2010, 01:27 AM
dam me to what bout that cortez shit?

King Matador
11-02-2010, 08:08 AM
his is a free download on like url and GT website.

Wizz
11-02-2010, 10:23 AM
passwurdz vs. philly swain supposed to drop tomorrow

King Matador
11-02-2010, 11:30 AM
yea, that's a have to see. I heard they both went in..

Wizz
11-03-2010, 06:23 PM
the jungle is the innovators of this shit.....



dont be surprised if you start seeing more double/triple entendres in battles henceforth. just sayin....

King Matador
11-03-2010, 08:59 PM
yea, they do be doing that a lot. if they do it like QP or heartless I don't have a problem with it.

Exhibit A: Heartless 7:01

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XjllYj3Zps

you could even continue to listen and you'll hear more doube meanings.

Exhibit B: QP 4:06

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slt2-s-9JN0

this one too, you could actually keep listening to and hear more..

Wizz
11-03-2010, 09:30 PM
yeah QP was doin em in the 2face battle. thats why i was raving about that battle so much.



wattz did one against 2face too, it was nice. (maybe heartless wrote it, maybe he didnt lol)

King Matador
11-03-2010, 10:33 PM
I just got what you meant. yea, they're gonna start reiterating their lines so we will get it, biting QP's style..


yeah QP was doin em in the 2face battle. thats why i was raving about that battle so much.



wattz did one against 2face too, it was nice. (maybe heartless wrote it, maybe he didnt lol)

I know for a fact heartless was helping wattz with his bars. wattz is just horrible. QP definitely killed the hell out of 2face. I hope he gets in that beast mode (which he said he is) against que p. there's gonna be hella name flips and talking about "you took my name" in that battle. heartless is supposed to battle big kannon in december.

Wizz
11-04-2010, 03:43 PM
is that heartless vs. big kannon on URL?




heartless is gonna abuse him with the fat jokes, even though he's no slim dude himself. syd vicious pt. 2

E RaSTaH
11-04-2010, 03:46 PM
i hope that cortez saurus drops soon

King Matador
11-04-2010, 04:29 PM
i hope that cortez saurus drops soon

it haven't happened yet.

Wizz
11-04-2010, 04:30 PM
hasnt even happened yet tho.



GT will keep supplying tho. they're still holding on to, Fresco vs. Soul Khan and SK vs. Madness, Real Deal vs. Thesaurus and some others

King Matador
11-04-2010, 04:37 PM
is that heartless vs. big kannon on URL?




heartless is gonna abuse him with the fat jokes, even though he's no slim dude himself. syd vicious pt. 2

yea, but it's gonna be on animal house vs da jungle. it's supposed to happen there, unless smack is gonna add it to the yung ill vs rich dollaz, conceited vs t rex, and hitman holla vs arsonal card. they're also trying to add miles to that card as well as verb, and math. just gotta find battlers. even though I think they'll setting math and miles up to battle. don't know who aye verb would be battling? he also said something about hollow too but hollow already agreed with grind time for the time they're talking about doing it. nonetheless, it's gonna be in the D. although, the animal house vs da jungle was supposed to be in new york. just so they're both on nuetral grounds, that might be in the D also.

also, that yung ill vs rich dollaz, conceited vs t rex, and hitman holla vs arsonal card was supposed to have happened this month. they just had venue issues.. lol at battle cards getting pushed back.

Wizz
11-04-2010, 05:46 PM
yea, but it's gonna be on animal house vs da jungle. it's supposed to happen there, unless smack is gonna add it to the yung ill vs rich dollaz, conceited vs t rex, and hitman holla vs arsonal card. they're also trying to add miles to that card as well as verb, and math. just gotta find battlers. even though I think they'll setting math and miles up to battle. don't know who aye verb would be battling? he also said something about hollow too but hollow already agreed with grind time for the time they're talking about doing it. nonetheless, it's gonna be in the D. although, the animal house vs da jungle was supposed to be in new york. just so they're both on nuetral grounds, that might be in the D also.

also, that yung ill vs rich dollaz, conceited vs t rex, and hitman holla vs arsonal card was supposed to have happened this month. they just had venue issues.. lol at battle cards getting pushed back.




yeah SMACK seems to have struggles with lining up venues. remember the Phoenix, AZ fiasco?

King Matador
11-04-2010, 06:40 PM
yeah SMACK seems to have struggles with lining up venues. remember the Phoenix, AZ fiasco?

yea, crazy. I don't really see url lasting that long, just cuss of the diva's and how smack conducts business. checkout smacks recent views compared to GT's recent views. that could be a result of how smack be laggin on dropping battles. GT overall just have bigger events. also, doesn't put a limitation on battlers. I see mook battling on grind time (that's actually a strong possibility). as well as lux, serius jones, more iron, basically bring back more vets. everyone was shocked when they got iron and remember, if it wasn't for diz, they would've got jin back. GT is just more dedicated to expanding the culture. you have top tier battlers that respect them so much, they're willing to do battle(s) for free. how many top tier url battlers would do that?

E RaSTaH
11-04-2010, 08:09 PM
GRINDTIME GETTIN MORE MONEY THEN SMACK..I HONESTLY WOULD RATHER SEE ALL THE URL DUDES JUS STICK WIT GT CUZ THEY WAY MORE ORGANIZED

Wizz
11-04-2010, 08:12 PM
i hope both URL and GT are able to stay afloat for as long as possible.


on the real though, KOTD held the battle scene down for the summer. there was a point where nothing was coming out but KOTD battles and they were almost all high-profile ones. so respect to them too

King Matador
11-04-2010, 08:20 PM
yea but KOTD and GT are connected, which like E said, I would like to see with URL too. they should've noticed how well they did together with the t-rex vs okwerdz battle. i'm pretty sure GT is gonna stay a float. don't know about URL unless they start expanding more. I mean they have animal house, da jungle, and all hip-hop but lets be real, that's not enough. especially when they don't do battles that often nor put out battles when they do.

King Matador
11-04-2010, 09:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1fbzUSDmS8&feature=player_embedded

King Matador
11-05-2010, 01:24 PM
y'all know what i've noticed with URL? ever since kap from GT said smack should incorporate his name back in the title, rather then just "URL" cuss that's what people know his battles for, he has done so. just an observation..

King Matador
11-06-2010, 10:23 AM
E-Ness Talks Midwest Miles, Aye Verb, Cortez, Okwerdz, Arsonal, Iron Solomon & More

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEdJiIxVUUU&feature=player_embedded

Aye Verb & Hitman Holla talks Who's Next On URL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVJB3PHrdzA&feature=player_embedded

Wizz
11-06-2010, 06:13 PM
Holla: "So you'll kill Goodz too?"

Aye Verb: "He doesn't have a neck."

King Matador
11-07-2010, 03:44 PM
NU-BORN TALKS: Beef With DNA, His URL Battle With Cocky, Name Change & Freestyle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsOCEoIY5nU&feature=player_embedded

STREETSTAR NORBES Interview: Talks URL, The Difference Between URL & GT + More On BodyBag Mag

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXN8hMml060&feature=player_embedded

E RaSTaH
11-14-2010, 01:31 AM
WHAWTS THE WORD ON THE SAURUS CORTEZ BATTLE

King Matador
11-14-2010, 08:59 AM
it's hard to say cuss it seems like everyone who seen it is bias towards both of them. the people who roll with cort said he won and same for the saurus. but everyone agreed that they both did their thang. I heard the saurus took it up a notch though. I also heard swave did his thang but diz went ballistic.

E RaSTaH
11-14-2010, 10:27 AM
lol word hope shit drop soon and aint no suprise dizaster goin crazy haha

King Matador
11-14-2010, 11:10 AM
they will be dropping those battles from that night in a month, weekly. so you'll be seeing them soon.

King Matador
11-23-2010, 11:06 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB3Wm9ofuNQ

King Matador
11-23-2010, 11:26 PM
Jersey Swift vs Dizaster (it wasn't finished though)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75HugipawwM

too much chaos and this happened after..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALwZf_6UogI

King Matador
11-24-2010, 06:59 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhCSwZy9bMQ

E RaSTaH
11-24-2010, 12:07 PM
lol these dykes rockin the mic

King Matador
11-24-2010, 01:10 PM
I have to see that diz vs swave.. cortez vs thesaurus.

Wizz
11-24-2010, 02:39 PM
I have to see that diz vs swave.. cortez vs thesaurus.

word.


Diz vs. DNA is pretty much locked in for BOLA 4, and Diz vs. Hollow is being locked in for MOB 2

King Matador
11-24-2010, 03:52 PM
yea, I heard. I was gonna say something when it was for certain. they said the hollow battle may be more certain then DNA but they're trying with DNA. cuss it'll be big for grind time and good look for both diz and DNA. they also wanted to do a 2on2 okwerdz and diz vs cortez and DNA too but yea, that's not gonna happen lol

King Matador
11-26-2010, 09:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLHmTo7W4lA&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H-OjyxXwq0&feature=player_embedded

King Matador
11-27-2010, 04:32 PM
classic throwback..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5vXYjxF-98&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Irlab0yVDLo&feature=player_embedded

Wizz
11-27-2010, 07:12 PM
hollow vs. aye verb rematch confirmed


also Kap Kallous quit GT

E RaSTaH
11-28-2010, 04:44 AM
hell yea dats wat im waiten for..i feel like both hollow and verb has gotten way better since that battle so thats wat it is

King Matador
11-28-2010, 08:07 AM
dang! at it being in STL again though.

King Matador
11-28-2010, 12:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NgfC2E1shk

Wizz
11-28-2010, 08:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLHmTo7W4lA&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H-OjyxXwq0&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd33af1QRzE&feature=feedrec

E RaSTaH
11-28-2010, 10:53 PM
LOL VERB GOT JOKES...HE NEEDA JUS SAVE ALL THAT SHIT TALKIN GOIN BACK AND FOURTH AND BATTLE ALRADY

King Matador
11-28-2010, 11:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd33af1QRzE&feature=feedrec

that's actually old and not a response to that interview. that's a response to this interview..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lEdgu41tsc&feature=player_embedded

Wizz
11-28-2010, 11:35 PM
that's actually old and not a response to that interview. that's a response to this interview..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lEdgu41tsc&feature=player_embedded

yeah u right

King Matador
11-29-2010, 08:09 PM
UPDATE: DNA is battling t-rex in jan. and then dizaster on feb. 5th. the hollow battling dizaster isn't official yet..

Wizz
11-30-2010, 04:50 PM
DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMN.....




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyERh_Z7fK4&feature=player_embedded

King Matador
11-30-2010, 05:15 PM
yea, I seen that, but they need to post the other battles, rather then releasing a trailer.

E RaSTaH
11-30-2010, 05:18 PM
lol url on sum other shit 30 dollas? fuck outta hea..grind time be like 10 dollas to get in

that arsonal hitman shuld b ill

King Matador
11-30-2010, 05:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CJmnaeWbU4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdG0peOTyaQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDG8c8WzqTQ

Wizz
11-30-2010, 05:43 PM
yea, I seen that, but they need to post the other battles, rather then releasing a trailer.

word, im still tryna see dna-big t. they said both went the fuck off

E RaSTaH
11-30-2010, 06:08 PM
lol i jus seen the full video of arsenal dissin hitman..he was gettin at him..he a funny as nigga

King Matador
11-30-2010, 09:06 PM
that old one that they put in that trailer or a new one?

King Matador
12-01-2010, 10:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7PGnlkzGQA

King Matador
12-02-2010, 04:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAXOzxPp7p4

Wizz
12-05-2010, 01:13 PM
Arsonal vs. Pat Stay in KOTD Jan. 22nd

E RaSTaH
12-05-2010, 03:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7PGnlkzGQA

LMAO ARSENOL IS A FUNNY ASS DUDE

King Matador
12-05-2010, 03:29 PM
Arsonal vs. Pat Stay in KOTD Jan. 22nd

pat is tight, hopefully it goes through. I have to see it on a flyer to believe it cuss sometimes arsenol says things and does another. speaking of pat though, this battle is classic. could've put it in my top battles..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlkTCXS0l0U&feature=player_embedded

King Matador
12-05-2010, 03:31 PM
LMAO ARSENOL IS A FUNNY ASS DUDE

lol yea, he's a fool.

Wizz
12-05-2010, 07:02 PM
pat is tight, hopefully it goes through. I have to see it on a flyer to believe it cuss sometimes arsenol says things and does another. speaking of pat though, this battle is classic. could've put it in my top battles..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlkTCXS0l0U&feature=player_embedded



its official. organik confirmed it.

King Matador
12-05-2010, 08:10 PM
ok, that's whats up. hopefully it happens..

Wizz
12-05-2010, 09:09 PM
ok, that's whats up. hopefully it happens..

KOTD has their shit way more in order than GT. I'd be extremely confident about it

King Matador
12-05-2010, 11:25 PM
yea, they do, i'm not doubting that at all. I just don't trust arsonal's word. it's gonna be tight if/when it happens. speaking of pat, I love his battle versus's HFK. good battle, but pat body bags the 3rd..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALNqrHzIGY8&feature=player_embedded

King Matador
12-06-2010, 12:57 PM
it's official, I don't know where, but okwerdz and dizaster is doing a 2 on 2 with ??? they said it was supposed to be at BOLA, but diz is trying to focus on DNA. so, it'll be somewhere else..

King Matador
12-07-2010, 11:35 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA11CL5nl5g&feature=player_embedded

King Matador
12-08-2010, 02:06 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKfz3wKltWA&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuO07v4zGEw&feature=player_embedded

King Matador
12-08-2010, 02:13 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KozXMNkRhb0&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8Unld6Yo0w&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXjCEjrQQ3U

Wizz
12-08-2010, 07:45 AM
it's official, I don't know where, but okwerdz and dizaster is doing a 2 on 2 with ??? they said it was supposed to be at BOLA, but diz is trying to focus on DNA. so, it'll be somewhere else..

yeah diz said it prolly wont happen. if it does it'll be later

King Matador
12-08-2010, 02:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE5i0lBr2Fk&feature=player_embedded

King Matador
12-09-2010, 11:30 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1mTgRMfXEw

King Matador
12-09-2010, 11:37 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3Fr84lY2y8

King Matador
12-09-2010, 11:37 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHNIRLCYCRY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uRAREaV3DM

King Matador
12-10-2010, 05:56 AM
Dirtbag Dan vs Ness Lee going down BOLA4, atleast what I heard from plex, lush, and diz.

diz got DNA, which we all know, but what people don't know is they're trying to get ok vs math. if that doesn't work then they might go after con. there are others but that's the top 2. they're really trying for math though. they also want hollow vs someone at BOLA4.

Wizz
12-11-2010, 05:45 PM
http://www.strategicdigitaloutreach.com/images/uploads/img_18921.jpg

Wizz
12-11-2010, 05:46 PM
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/5962/wowos.jpg

Wizz
12-11-2010, 05:46 PM
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8934/conceited.gif

E RaSTaH
12-11-2010, 06:05 PM
lol who the fuck is dat

Wizz
12-11-2010, 06:13 PM
lol who the fuck is dat

http://i53.tinypic.com/20qc3g7.jpg

King Matador
12-11-2010, 06:15 PM
haha!!

King Matador
12-13-2010, 09:41 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVBwx_0R-Bc&feature=player_embedded

King Matador
12-13-2010, 11:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkUpTyfpoFI&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TknC_W_hLwo&feature=player_embedded

Wizz
12-14-2010, 08:46 AM
oh shit.....






we got another conceited look alike:



http://oi53.tinypic.com/vdh6j5.jpg

Wizz
12-14-2010, 08:47 AM
http://i52.tinypic.com/dzt1jq.gif

E RaSTaH
12-14-2010, 10:53 AM
lmfao..thats qb's homegirl http://www.myspace.com/t-huny ..i actually use to say ill get head from her..she got sum lips but that conceited comparison fucked me all up

King Matador
12-14-2010, 09:57 PM
http://i54.tinypic.com/300qwp0.jpg

E RaSTaH
12-14-2010, 11:08 PM
i think url is steppin it up..got alot of fresh talent now too

King Matador
12-15-2010, 11:29 AM
yea, they're definitely stepping it up. getting battlers from different leagues, which I think is great. they just need to step their event equipment up. too many technical difficulties. last event they had hella malfunctions and technical difficulties.

King Matador
12-16-2010, 10:41 AM
my condolences go out to ness lee and his fam. what happened to him, happens everyday, but everytime it does, it's sad. so unexpected, so thoughtless, so cruel, but that's the life we live in smh.. luckily him and his fam is ok. that's the best thing from all of this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfjPWxaIe7E&feature=player_embedded

E RaSTaH
12-17-2010, 11:53 AM
I SHULD BATTLE..I JUS ETHERED KOBRA KY WIT ONE LINE..HE DOIN ALL THAT GUN TALK SHIT..SO I WAS LIKE NIGGA PLZ ONLY THING YOU WOULD EVER PROTECT IS UR KITCHEN! I KULD VISION ALL THE OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHS CRAZY REACTIONS..NIGGAS SHOUTIN MY NAME..YELLIN OUT BODYBAG!

King Matador
12-17-2010, 12:54 PM
lol I could see it.

Wizz
12-21-2010, 04:11 PM
Christmas is going to be a GREAT day for battle fans.



GT- All the 2 on 2's from Grizzlemania 2

KOTD-Porich/Kid Twist vs. Bender/Loe Pesci

URL-Hitman Holla vs. Arsonal

Dont Flop-Real Deal vs. Definition

E RaSTaH
12-21-2010, 04:39 PM
whoa thats wassup..knicks game andn that cant complain

King Matador
12-21-2010, 05:13 PM
diz vs swave on the 23rd too, yeaaaa..

Zaphod
12-27-2010, 05:15 PM
"Some confirmed BOLA4 matches include- @mrdizaster vs @DNA2K10 , @NessLeeTheRtist vs @dirtbagdan408 , @PUMPKINHEADBKAC vs @jazejuce & more!"
- http://twitter.com/grindtimenow

ahahaha, 'bout time

King Matador
01-05-2011, 01:33 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15nZ6uTaGq0

Zaphod
01-05-2011, 06:12 PM
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs784.ash1/167449_485299504890_643549890_6048816_1481428_n.jp g


http://www.grindtimenow.com/images/events/gtn-detroit187.jpg
http://www.grindtimenow.com/images/events/gtn-detroit187-back.jpg

Wizz
01-10-2011, 01:08 PM
M Ciddy gon get bodied by Breed at the Detroit event.



and i went back and watched a bunch of battles from this past year. Heartless' first round versus Calicoe was the nastiest shit ever lol

King Matador
01-17-2011, 07:38 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=styyDb5GChM&feature=player_embedded

E RaSTaH
01-17-2011, 08:02 PM
yo king does hollow d nin nin don has any battles comin up? its much needed

Wizz
01-17-2011, 08:16 PM
yo king does hollow d nin nin don has any battles comin up? its much needed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU6voh8DZoI&feature=player_embedded

Wizz
01-17-2011, 08:20 PM
royce has been clowning shotgun suge for weeks on twitter. especially after suge did the "packinamacinthebackoftheac..." shit in his last battle.



here's suges diss track: http://tweetmysong.com/a6v93u



royce's response video: http://www.twitvid.com/52GBO

E RaSTaH
01-17-2011, 08:29 PM
word that hollow vs goodz prolly will b classic

E RaSTaH
01-17-2011, 08:36 PM
what is shotgun doin dissin royce for..that track was hard tho..but he aint no where near royce level

King Matador
01-17-2011, 09:16 PM
yea, the track is hard though. royce asked (via twitter) have suge ever won a battle after that shine battle. suge took offense to it and they went back and forth for a little bit on twitter. suge said he was gonna make a diss about him..

Wizz
01-17-2011, 09:29 PM
suge should stick to tracks, and have surf ghost some of his bars

E RaSTaH
01-17-2011, 10:05 PM
yea suge is more of a song maker..but he has been steppin it up tho in his last battles

King Matador
01-17-2011, 10:06 PM
surf or o'red. suge actually has bars though. I don't know why he doesn't know how to convert them in a battle? I seen some improvement (with him) the 1st round of his battle with shine though.

King Matador
01-21-2011, 09:45 AM
http://i52.tinypic.com/vo8lf5.jpg

E RaSTaH
02-01-2011, 10:24 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRA18bq91lM&feature=feedu

this group gon b a problem

King Matador
02-01-2011, 10:53 PM
yea they're tight.

Wizz
02-01-2011, 10:58 PM
still dont know what the b in nyb stands for

Wizz
02-01-2011, 11:56 PM
Locksmith gon be on ski beatz album....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_cXsMnVa2s&feature=player_embedded

E RaSTaH
02-02-2011, 12:07 AM
still dont know what the b in nyb stands for

most them reppin brooklyn..thats wat i thought

King Matador
02-02-2011, 10:46 AM
it's "new york bullies."

Wizz
02-03-2011, 02:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmYq6M9e5rI&feature=player_embedded

Wizz
02-06-2011, 10:01 PM
qp vs. diz dropping in a week and a half per diz

King Matador
02-07-2011, 10:54 AM
qp vs. diz dropping in a week and a half per diz

i'll believe that when I see it.

off subject, but I remember I said i'll believe the pat stay vs arsonal when I see it and wow! nothing happened. I know about him not being able to enter canada, but the fact still remains lol although I heard they were still battling in march. when hollo battles cortez. I hope it does happen.

anyways..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu1Lp4zjrdk&feature=player_embedded

E RaSTaH
02-07-2011, 11:02 AM
IMA TRY TO WIN THAT FREE TRIP TO T.DOT

E RaSTaH
02-07-2011, 04:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2se5O8jLq4U&feature=feedu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvBjnVLwpHM&feature=related

lol

King Matador
02-12-2011, 12:43 PM
URL March 27th

Hollow vs Goodz
Calicoe vs K shine
O'red vs Tay roc
Tsu surf vs Xfactor
Rich Dolaz vs tech 9
Young Kannon vs Daylyt



and..




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmWe2mcVUZg

midwest miles is also on the card. they're trying to set him up with math, but that may not go down. cortez as well, but that also may not go down. who knows though? he's gonna announce it next week.

Wizz
02-12-2011, 04:59 PM
Young Kannon vs. Daylyt>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

King Matador
02-12-2011, 11:10 PM
http://i55.tinypic.com/v3dted.jpg

KOTD - VENGEANCE
Sat.March.5th (03-05-11)
XS Nightclub - (261 Richmond St E)
Doors Open @ 1PM Battles Start @2:30PM Sharp
$20 @ Door - $25 After 2:30
19+ ID A MUST!
Interupt & Get Kicked OUT!
Hosted By: Organik, Ryan PVP & Bishop Brigante
KOTD Merchandise will be on SALE!

--2 main events--
Cortez vs Hollohan
Pat Stay vs Arsonal

--2011 2vs2 GP Battles--
Knamelis/JackShitt vs Syco/YoungStitch
Arcane/Dose vs Matt Daley/Kaliente
Charron/HFK vs Stepeasy/Bartone
TrickyP/FeelGood vs Lokust/Postal
poRICH/Diaz vs Q/JWalker

-- Regular KOTD Matches --
Tysonic vs Tino
Mookie vs Myselph

--2vs2 Beatbox Battle--
Subconcious/KillaBeatz vs Heat/Young

--Comedian Battle--
Keith Pedro vs Yaks Kaplan

Wizz
02-15-2011, 08:05 PM
awwwww shiiiiit.


Brick Belvy vs. young kannon @MOB2

King Matador
02-18-2011, 02:36 PM
should be great.

King Matador
02-22-2011, 10:48 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjPwC7aG9Do&feature=player_embedded

King Matador
03-07-2011, 06:19 PM
seen this picture on facebook..

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/196792_10150121226470859_505350858_6385362_6679938 _n.jpg

Release Date: 3/14/11

Wizz
03-07-2011, 10:26 PM
shit was controversial at the end from what i heard....

King Matador
03-12-2011, 05:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snslNX-hw2c

E RaSTaH
03-25-2011, 12:17 PM
illmac and the saurus grand prix battle was up for like ten minites then went privite..i missed it tho

King Matador
03-25-2011, 12:19 PM
I need to see that.

E RaSTaH
03-25-2011, 12:21 PM
ayo king is that hollow goods battle droppin on youtube 3.27? or is that wen the event is takin place?

King Matador
03-25-2011, 12:24 PM
it's taking place on the 3/27 event

Wizz
08-27-2011, 10:10 AM
hitman vs. hollow is dropping today per SMACK via twitter

E RaSTaH
08-27-2011, 11:43 AM
winnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnning